tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post4801461404742545006..comments2024-03-28T19:56:42.305-05:00Comments on Alexander Pruss's Blog: A consideration in favor of factory farmingAlexander R Prusshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-20210425726281011992018-02-01T20:38:48.030-06:002018-02-01T20:38:48.030-06:00https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/1704...https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/04/170425124909.htmAlexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-65143328788348380702018-02-01T17:50:48.717-06:002018-02-01T17:50:48.717-06:00If it's easily accessible, would you mind shar...If it's easily accessible, would you mind sharing it? I would be interested to see it. No worries if not.Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12731504117553636654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-14848643105147361272018-02-01T17:39:39.768-06:002018-02-01T17:39:39.768-06:00At least one of the research articles I came acros...At least one of the research articles I came across was from 2017 and explicitly said that its conclusions are at odds with the guidelines.Alexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-60130679300254518002018-02-01T16:26:38.370-06:002018-02-01T16:26:38.370-06:00I regularly consumed meat for most of my life, and...I regularly consumed meat for most of my life, and my close relatives still regularly consume meat. After eating mostly vegetarian for about 5 years now, I can assure you that preparing satisfying and pleasurable vegetarian dishes is no more time-consuming than preparing meat dishes. And there are a lot of helpful online resources for recipes. Here's a <a href="http://www.cookinglight.com/food/quick-healthy/quick-and-easy-vegetarian-recipes#smashed-chickpea-salad-toasts" rel="nofollow">link</a> to some fast recipes. Here's a <a href="https://ohmyveggies.com" rel="nofollow">website</a> with many delicious recipes.<br /><br />Perhaps you're aware of more recent research regarding recommended saturated/trans fat and sodium consumption, but the 2015-2020 Health Department Dietary Guidelines recommend diminishing consumption because of correlations with adverse health effects. Here's a <a href="https://health.gov/dietaryguidelines/2015/guidelines/chapter-1/a-closer-look-inside-healthy-eating-patterns/" rel="nofollow">link</a> to the guidelines. (relevant parts are near the bottom of the page)<br /><br />I don't deny the majority of humans tend to find meat more satisfying than vegetarian meals, especially if they consume it regularly. That's why I said, "adjusting to a no meat diet is difficult at first, but it becomes much easier and more pleasurable after a few months." But I'm not sure how helpful the data you reference is anyways because the available vegetarian options in countries with lower GDPs might be pretty terrible, which would explain an increase in meat consumption as more resources become available. It's also possible that increased GDP correlates with increased population, which would explain increased total meat consumption. But these are just conjectures.Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12731504117553636654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-25870950117098044432018-02-01T10:58:42.955-06:002018-02-01T10:58:42.955-06:00The way meat consumption rises sharply as a countr...The way meat consumption rises sharply as a country's GDP increases from zero to $10K ( https://na.unep.net/geas/getUNEPPageWithArticleIDScript.php?article_id=92 ) would be very well explained by the hypothesis that people tend to find meat more satisfying than vegetarian options. Alexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-16347780035313651472018-02-01T10:10:38.966-06:002018-02-01T10:10:38.966-06:00By the way, I think that recent research has backt...By the way, I think that recent research has backtracked on the old consensus that fat and sodium are bad. Alexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-87637160902046951922018-02-01T10:08:32.290-06:002018-02-01T10:08:32.290-06:00My feeling -- perhaps mistaken -- is that it is ra...My feeling -- perhaps mistaken -- is that it is rather more time-consuming to prepare a satisfying and pleasurable vegetarian meal. And the poor have less leisure, I assume.<br /><br />I get rather more satisfaction from a sausage dumped in the microwave than from any vegetarian meal that I can think of that could be prepared in a minute. Tastes differ, of course.<br /><br />On the other hand, there are issues of economies of scale. If a large enough number of people were vegetarian, I suppose the economies of scale on delicious microwaveable vegetarian meals might be quite good.Alexander R Prusshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05989277655934827117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-62802138788658427302018-01-31T22:17:20.638-06:002018-01-31T22:17:20.638-06:00Part 2:
Regarding your example of an impoverished ...Part 2:<br />Regarding your example of an impoverished person, you say, "In that context, losing regular access to meat would take away one of the few pleasures in life—the pleasure of eating meat with a regularity that in the past mainly the rich could afford. Moreover, the pleasures of eating are often not just solitary pleasures but communal: I would lose sharing this pleasure with other family members living difficult lives."<br /><b>Response:</b> Again, this person might lose the gustatory pleasure for a few months, but this would likely be regained through a vegetarian diet. Furthermore, even if this person could not afford meat regularly, they would still likely be able to occasionally afford the slightly more expensive meat. A portion of the money used to frequently buy cheaper factory farmed meat could be saved and used to buy expensive humane meat less frequently. And they might even get more pleasure from this meat since they don't get to eat it as frequently, which might make up some for the loss of pleasure from not having meat regularly. Regarding the loss of communal pleasures, they would eventually be able to share in just as much communal pleasure while eating a vegetarian diet. Additionally, they might be able to pool their resources and purchase the more expensive, but humane, meat for special occasions.<br /><br />So it's not clear to me that "the elimination of factory farming would... be a much greater loss [for the poor]," at least not after a few months. In fact, it could even be a benefit for the poor if they ate healthy vegetarian diets since their diets would include less fat, cholesterol, and sodium, and thereby promote their health.<br /><br />Thanks for your thoughts.Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12731504117553636654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3891434218564545511.post-60346800824930549322018-01-31T22:16:08.990-06:002018-01-31T22:16:08.990-06:00Part 1:
These are interesting thoughts, but I'...Part 1:<br />These are interesting thoughts, but I'm not sure they work.<br /><br />You say, "Since people’s feelings of happiness and misery are largely tied to comparative evaluations, this inequality would be likely to lead to increased misery in those at the lower levels of the income scale who are already living lives of quiet desperation."<br /><b>Response:</b> First, let me acknowledge that I might not be situated to make reliable pronouncements on this since I am not impoverished, but it's not clear to me that feelings of happiness/misery are largely tied to comparative evaluations, at least not in the long run. Humans have a tendency to adapt to their present circumstances, regardless of how well others appear to be doing. At the very least, the effect of comparative evaluations on feelings of happiness/misery diminishes significantly over time. Perhaps upon realizing that there are wealthier humans who enjoy fine dining, expensive wine, and lavish vacations, an impoverished person might feel high levels of misery, but I suspect (for many at least) these feelings diminish over time, especially if the individual is still able to find pleasure in other areas of life. And I think it's very likely that such individuals <i>would</i> be able to find other pleasures (in food and other domains) even if meat was unavailable. As a (majority-of-the-time) vegetarian, I can verify that there are wide varieties of very pleasurable vegetarian food options. Admittedly, adjusting to a no meat diet is difficult at first, but it becomes much easier and more pleasurable after a few months.<br /><br />You say, "the impact that a pleasure has on a life intuitively depends on what other pleasures are available in life."<br /><b>Response:</b> Perhaps this is right, but the impact of a pleasure also plausibly depends on the amount/intensity of the pleasure, and the amount/intensity of the pleasure one gets from something depends on many variable factors, such as one's habits and one's status quo. For example, when I regularly consumed meat, I got a lot of pleasure from it and much less pleasure from other foods like vegetables. But now that I rarely eat meat, I get much more pleasure from other foods like vegetables, and generally much less from eating meat, especially since I am now aware that when I eat (factory farmed) meat, I am contributing to a system that regularly causes immense pain and suffering to animals.Walkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12731504117553636654noreply@blogger.com